"Pro" Teams in Mono

[Nat Filmore]

Has anyone else noticed that "pro" teams seems to be circling around Mono? Those who have mostly competed elsewhere previously. I suspect this is largely due to top down pressure in the "higher" formulae and they can smell a financial opportunity, not least of which is afforded by Mono's recent success. Do these teams have any place in Mono?

[andrewcliffe]

I think its partly the success of Mono and the fact that other series are becoming more of a career path for young whippersnappers.

F3 Cup is probably a more lucrative hunting ground for those teams, although many drivers may prefer the Mono atmosphere.

[samier]

I was surprised by the comments of the commentator who refered Monoposto drivers as "garden shed junk racers" at one of the races this year. You cannot stop progress, life goes on, we cant all live in the low tech historic times (If you want to, buy a historic and race in historic events), for example there are a few who are fascinated by data loggers, digital dashes and would not hesitate to use them as a tool/device to assist them, but you also get those who would just have an oil warning light and a rev counter. Neither is wrong, but you cannot stop those who want to use newer technology. Some even have fancy motorhomes trucks, its all about personal affordability, I would have the same if I could afford it, but I dont have the means at the moment so I will manage with a Dermot spec trailer!

If pro teams come from other series I do not think there is anything wrong, sure they car raise the bar, which I guess would piss off some of the old boys or independents, but if they have superior engineering and car setup capabilites that is because they have worked hard to develop and get to the stage where they are. Can sometimes act as a wake up call for the competition to get their asses moving and step up to the challenge!

[tristancliffe]

Define "pro"!

Is a team with a truck pro? Even if it's a worn out old truck converted/maintained/improved by an amateur in the home driveway?
Is a team with two cars pro? Even if they are both prepared in the home workshop? Does the fact one might be a paid job count as being pro?

Some "pro" teams (the likes of Antel for example) are clearly welcome in Monoposto, even if their budgets are clearly massive compared to the usual Monoposto folk. If Carlin came into Mono that might be a bit much. But if a BARC Formula Renault team wanted to come and play to get some race practice or even just track mileage then the more the merrier really..... Up to the point that the driving standards suffer - Professional driving should not be allowed or encouraged in Monoposto. Too many crashes, too much blocking and weaving. Too much 'rubbing'. You can race hard without having to crash into people all the time. Let the professionals embarrass themselves in lesser series.

[Nick Harrison]

Define "pro"!

Is a team with a truck pro? Even if it's a worn out old truck converted/maintained/improved by an amateur in the home driveway?
Is a team with two cars pro? Even if they are both prepared in the home workshop? Does the fact one might be a paid job count as being pro?

Some "pro" teams (the likes of Antel for example) are clearly welcome in Monoposto, even if their budgets are clearly massive compared to the usual Monoposto folk. If Carlin came into Mono that might be a bit much. But if a BARC Formula Renault team wanted to come and play to get some race practice or even just track mileage then the more the merrier really..... Up to the point that the driving standards suffer - Professional driving should not be allowed or encouraged in Monoposto. Too many crashes, too much blocking and weaving. Too much 'rubbing'. You can race hard without having to crash into people all the time. Let the professionals embarrass themselves in lesser series.

Firmly with TC on this. What is 'pro' and what does it matter anyway?

In any race series/championship there is a range of goals across the grid. Some only come to win, others know their budget is midfield and want to finish in the top ten and have a good race with someone and others are just pleased to be there. Happens in F1 just as it does in Mono.

We were once testing at Donington and Russell Eacott of T Sport came to see what we were about. I made some comment about only being amateurs. His response was you still have to prepare a car to the same standard as us as it has to get to the end of the race to win. Race wins start in the workshop not under the awning of a truck, in a motorhome, poncing about in the latest F1 team jacket, in the holding paddock or on the grid.

'Pro' teams do not do anything that a good amateur intent on winning will not do for themselves.

Someone who wants to bring an entourage is not going to gain any benefit from that once the lights go out. Jack Brabham. 'When the flag drops the bullshit stops'.

Any driver should be welcomed, amateur or 'pro' however that is defined. We only go to win and I make no apologies about that and you have not really won if you are selective about who you race.

[Nat Filmore]

Still working on adequate definition of "pro", but main business, shiny trucks, motorhomes, team clothing, designer stubble, hair product and surliness will be in there somewhere, along with shop bought cakes. If you ever see cloned racing driver WAGS then you know you're in real trouble. Interesting that so far all contributions to this thread have come from Mono 2000. Do the other classes have any view?

[tristancliffe]

Still working on adequate definition of "pro", but main business, shiny trucks, motorhomes, team clothing, designer stubble, hair product and surliness will be in there somewhere, along with shop bought cakes. If you ever see cloned racing driver WAGS then you know you're in real trouble. Interesting that so far all contributions to this thread have come from Mono 2000. Do the other classes have any view?

It's not our main business - yet. I would like it to become our main business in the future though. We have a truck (although it's not that shiny). We have a motorhome (but we never bring it). I've been thinking about team t-shirts. We have stubble sometimes (and Dad has a beard). I sometimes use hair products. I can be quite surly (depending on whether my gearbox has just exploded or if I've been driving more like a girl than usual). Our cakes, when we have any, are all homemade. WAGs come along too often as not.

But I wouldn't say we were 'pro'. Possibly because of the cakes.

Mono2000 people are the only people in Mono that can do computers. The other classes are still on slide rules and abacuses

[karl]

Pro means paid? - how many drivers are paid to race in mono or how many teams?

Websites and freebies from local businesses do not constitute a pro. Nor shiny trucks ... Sponsors might help reduce some costs but after you add the initial extra investment to secure sponsorship and time to get it, it is questionable.

Even to get freebies from friends who own businesses - they have expectations.

Some international racers with big sponsors - pay out of season living costs with other business interests / part time jobs, I do not think there are many PRO's in club racing.... unless a professional driver from a different championship is entering?

or maybe a factory team that runs a business has a interest in marketing and is hiring a car and team into mono which is covering all there costs/generating a profit. - I suppose they could be called a professional company - but unless the driver is at least covering all his costs or really making money (a wage) from sponsorship etc.. He's not a pro.

Anyway - I would suspect the difference in some peoples wages and living costs could out weigh sponsorship etc..

[Nat Filmore]

Dad has a beard). WAGs come along too often as not.

But I wouldn't say we were 'pro'. Possibly because of the cakes

LOL! A beard is the sign of a proper engineer. WAGs are OK, it's just the cloned racing driver type that are the sign of a "pro" team.

wag.jpg

[tristancliffe]

Dad has a beard). WAGs come along too often as not.

But I wouldn't say we were 'pro'. Possibly because of the cakes

LOL! A beard is the sign of a proper engineer. WAGs are OK, it's just the cloned racing driver type that are the sign of a "pro" team.

wag.jpg

Where did you get that picture of me (the one on the right of the picture, before you start...)?

[samier]

Define "pro"!

Is a team with a truck pro? Even if it's a worn out old truck converted/maintained/improved by an amateur in the home driveway?
Is a team with two cars pro? Even if they are both prepared in the home workshop? Does the fact one might be a paid job count as being pro?

Some "pro" teams (the likes of Antel for example) are clearly welcome in Monoposto, even if their budgets are clearly massive compared to the usual Monoposto folk. If Carlin came into Mono that might be a bit much. But if a BARC Formula Renault team wanted to come and play to get some race practice or even just track mileage then the more the merrier really..... Up to the point that the driving standards suffer - Professional driving should not be allowed or encouraged in Monoposto. Too many crashes, too much blocking and weaving. Too much 'rubbing'. You can race hard without having to crash into people all the time. Let the professionals embarrass themselves in lesser series.

I will agree on that point about professional driving because they can and do take risks and would not care if they crashed as they have financial backing.

[AndyY]

"Pro" must clearly mean being paid - if we are talking about drivers, then there's probably only a dozen or so pro drivers in the UK. Even in BTCC there are probably only a small handful & in British GT this year there were probably two, Alan Simonson & Matt Griffin at a guess.

[RedRedWine]

Professional teams are like elephants - they may be difficult to describe, but when you see one you know what it is. They're great in their place and interesting to watch, but I wouldn't want one in my back yard.

To move away from the analogy, I think I'm on the same lines as Nat. A key thing about the "professional" teams is that "they bain't be from round these parts". Omicron, Magic, Avit, (and Dermot when he descends from his Cheshire Baronial Pile amidst a heavenly welcoming choir to run the odd car) are people with their roots in Mono, and have usually raced there themselves, not outsiders coming in for a quick buck.

One of the joys of Mono is the atmosphere. I can remember about 20 years ago being a hanger on with a very friendly truly professional team at a high profile meeting. The teams surrounding them were nearly all the "professionals" of which Nat speaks. It was one of the most miserable weekends of my life, I never went back to repeat it. I don't want that to happen in Mono, and when I hear about teams from outside Mono offering to run on a "money no object" basis I fear the worst.

Incidentally, I'm a 1600'ist and I don't use a computer in racing because most of the hardware is either tat, overpriced, or second hand and therefore overpriced tat that furthermore never works. (I know there are exceptions.) Also while I'm having a whinge, the increased "professionalism" of big rigs means paddocks are overcrowded with little parking for late comers which is one of the reasons I couldn't face one race meeting last year and pulled out at the last minute from a meeting with one of the country's worst paddocks. And is one of the reasons I probably won't do a race this year either at that same circuit.

[Nat Filmore]

Fair point SPB.

What Tony failed to say about his miserable weekend on the pro racing scene is that he got a crucial protest overturned, or rather not admitted, by pointing out to the CoC that it had been filed outside the prescribed time limit. I haven't pointed this out to praise Tony (heaven forbid), but that it caused me to remember protests are another delighful aspect of pro racing I had quite forgotten about.

However Tony is wrong about paddock space and pro racing. It used to be that every team got an allocated paddock space at every meeting and I can't believe it will have changed. This is one aspect of pro motorsport that Mono should emulate, if at all possible. Also they manage it at every hillclimb and sprint.

[Nick Harrison]

Also they manage it at every hillclimb and sprint.

You must go to some posh places! (Other than SW)