Monoposto newbie, help required

[Trev]

Hi All

This is my first post, but I've been on the old forum before. I've toyed with the idea of Monoposto for a couple of years but due to work etc I've never been settled in one area long enough to have the time/room to compete. Well this year I am hoping to get the ball rolling but I need a bit of advice and information first.

1) What car to run and class should I look at. I am new to single seat racing I was thinking that something not too fast would be a good way to go. The sort of cars I’ve seen for sale are formula BMW, formula Renault and Van Dieman Rf’s.

Looking at some specs the formula BMW is a 1200cc and the Renault is a 2000cc. Is there much different in speed, handling characteristics etc and are either cars eligible and suitable for Monoposto.

2) How much should I budget in a season to maintain and run a typical car?

3) How easy are the cars to run, maintain and setup. Is it a job one man and his dog (couple of mates) can do or does it require a small team of mechanics etc

Any help would be much appreciated

Trev

[tristancliffe]

Hi All

This is my first post, but I've been on the old forum before. I've toyed with the idea of Monoposto for a couple of years but due to work etc I've never been settled in one area long enough to have the time/room to compete. Well this year I am hoping to get the ball rolling but I need a bit of advice and information first.

1) What car to run and class should I look at. I am new to single seat racing I was thinking that something not too fast would be a good way to go. The sort of cars I’ve seen for sale are formula BMW, formula Renault and Van Dieman Rf’s.

Looking at some specs the formula BMW is a 1200cc and the Renault is a 2000cc. Is there much different in speed, handling characteristics etc and are either cars eligible and suitable for Monoposto.

2) How much should I budget in a season to maintain and run a typical car?

3) How easy are the cars to run, maintain and setup. Is it a job one man and his dog (couple of mates) can do or does it require a small team of mechanics etc

Any help would be much appreciated

Trev

Welcome to Mono! I to started racing in Monoposto, and went straight into the 2 litre class. The learning curve was steep, but I don't think any more so than in other classes. We used a Reynard 883, which is a carbon tubbed late 80s F3 car, with an aluminium floor, and wings/slicks.

Oddly enough, it is still for sale, after having won the class championship in 2008 - we've since 'upgraded' to a more modern car.

The budget required varies greatly. Some do it on little more than about double the entry fees, plus transport fuel to the tracks, others spend quite a lot more. Assuming you have no accidents and the car is reasonably reliable then you would measure the per-race cost in hundreds rather than thousands of pounds.

I can't give you a more accurate figure as I don't keep accurate enough numbers on cost - more fool me!

Our car was run by my Dad and myself, although my brother and sister-in-law help out in the paddocks and are a big help. Some people run the car entirely on their own!! Because they don't have many of the complicated bits found on road cars they are typically simpler to run and maintain, but that is a very vague statement. Finding bits, especially bodywork and suspension for some cars (especially older, but not JUST older cars) can be difficult which tends to create artificially high prices.

If you want to discuss it more I'm sure some knowledgable, more experience people will turn up here to write their thoughts. Getting in touch with Dermot Healy (see the forum index for his number) would be a good idea too, because he generally knows of (or has) cars for sale, and is fairly well acquainted with parts availability for each sort too.

And if you want more of my opinion, which is usually worthless in comparison to most here, or simply want to ask more questions then feel free to drop me an email or a private message.

Hope to see you on a few grids,

Tristan

[andrewcliffe]

I would say a regular helper is a very welcome addition. Someone to keep an eye on the clock to make sure you as driver remembers to go to safety briefings, helps with pushing and pulling, can look after a booster battery and help with strapping you in tight, and just someone for company or to help with the driving to and from the circuit is very useful.

[tristancliffe]

Someone to keep an eye on the clock to make sure you as driver remembers to go to briefings

Don't say any more. I have a reputation to maintain

[Dave]

Trev

There are many cars you can buy that can race in Mono as we have two grids with six classes.
For value for money I would go for either a 1600 Formula Ford or an 1800.
None are to complicated. I run in the 1600 class with a 1983 Reynard. You can easily get spares, particularly for Reynard and Van Diemen. Some of the less well known should possibly be avoided.
Budgets can be relatively cheap. You obviously have entry fees, transport costs etc but other than that a 1600 engine will go for several years without being touched. Tyres we can get second hand for fifty pounds a set. You might have the odd wing or corner to buy but it's not to bad.
I've had three different guys travel with me but they have all been lured into marriage and that was that. For the past four seasons i've managed perfectly adequately by myself. As do quite a few of the other Mono drivers.You don't have to have a team helping. You have to manage without pit boards but if you're just starting they will not tell you much you don't know anyway. All I have to do at a circuit is fill up with petrol, check tyre pressures, or change for wets, and be where i'm supposed to be at the right time.
All Mono cars are generally all together in the paddock so you can hardly miss anything.

If you put on the forum which town, city, area you're based in then i'm sure someone will meet up with you to pass on a bit of general advice.

[Trev]

Hi guys

Thanks very much for the responses so far. Budget isn't a huge issue but I just wanted to see if there were particular cars that I should avoid for costs etc. I've looked at other series before and one of the big draws to monoposto was the fact that costs seem to be very reasonable. Also last time I was on the forum I had lots of offers of help etc to get me started and people seem very friendly and happy to help out if they can which is great.

At the moment I am swinging towards a formula Renault as from looking on various racing sites spares seem to fairly easy to come by. One thing that does concern me is the learning curve that Tristan mentions. Does anyone know of any training days that anyone runs, perhaps Renault Sport that offer drivers some guidance/driving assessment etc or even of any good private tutors that offer one to one lessons. I think that would be a good way to go to start with to help get familiar with the car and its limits.

Also I live in Rugby and would be happy to hear from anyone in my area

Thanks

Trev

[Paperman]

Trev

Welcome to the Monoposto forum - we hope you do come racing with us! Everyone else is doing a very good job of advising you, and I didn't think I could add much until you wrote that you were in Rugby. I live in Long Buckby, about 8 miles from you. I'm the Club Administrator so can't myself compete in the Championship, although I have in the past and had a lot of fun.

I think Monoposto must be the best place currently to go single seater racing, certainly in terms of value-for-money and help/advice from others. If you're looking for a car/class that is relatively straight forward and good value I would say do Mono 1800 in a Zetec FF. There are some good buys in these cars around at the moment and they are fairly straightforward to run. However there are many other car/class options in Mono that would work well for you - it really comes down to personal preferences in the end.

You can reach me on email (admin@monoposto.co.uk) or from the website. Drop me a message - you would be very welcome to come round and have a chat.

Hope to hear from you

Simon Davey
Club Administrator

[phuston]

Trev,

Welcome.

1) What car to run and class should I look at. I am new to single seat racing I was thinking that something not too fast would be a good way to go. The sort of cars I’ve seen for sale are formula BMW, formula Renault and Van Dieman Rf’s.

You have not given any details of experience. If you have little or no track experience I would suggest that you keep it simple which means that the number of variables on the car are reduced to a minimum. Effectively this means that the cars raced in Mono1800 or Mono1600 are best suited. The Formula Ford style of car is designed so that inexperienced drivers can learn the skills required for successful racing, thats why they have been successful for nearly sixty years. Wings look great, but will add hundreds to a rebuild if you knock them off and are not necessary for success in these classes.

When starting to race you need time on track, this equates to a reliable car.

I doubt that many of our cars are insured, insurance would double the cost of every race and is not necessary if the car being raced is not of great value (my total cost for crash repairs has been about £500 for approximately 100 races over ten years racing, perhaps I have been fortunate).

By supercar standards everything we race is very fast, my opinion is that a driver driving a 'slow' car fast is doing a better job than a driver in a 'fast' car that is being driven slowly. At a meeting there will be overlap between the lap times set in all classes we race (we also overlap club F3). Skills are best learnt in a car that the driver is not overawed by.

The BMW and the Renault are not central to the British club racing scene and are manufacturer orientated, their spares prices reflect this. A car with a four pot production engine and a Hewland gearbox only has a bespoke chassis and bodywork. The club scene understands these cars and spares are readily available at reasonable prices from emporia such as Dermot Healy's.

2) How much should I budget in a season to maintain and run a typical car?

I sometimes sign myself impecunious racing, last season my total cost per race for everything was about £290/race. The season was not unsuccessful. Few will race for less. Everything includes the tow car's fuel from the time it left my driveway.

3) How easy are the cars to run, maintain and setup. Is it a job one man and his dog (couple of mates) can do or does it require a small team of mechanics etc.

Some, e.g. Dave run their cars solo. I run mine with my wife's assistance but she will agree that she has zero mechanical knowledge but can now assist with changing wheels! I would suggest that you need a helper, who knows the ropes for the first couple of races.

I did manage a run of 62 races without retirement, much of which was with a car and trailer purchased for less than £2500. I work on the principle that 'if its not broke don't try and fix it', the result is that the maintainance on my Swift has been so minimal over the last four seasons that I am too embarassed to record it on this Forum! Chassis setup is straightforward.

Training.

Last time I looked, a training course will cost you about as much as a season's racing and naturally you have to fit into their timetable. I have a rear engined two seater, used for trackdays. This was borrowed by a club member for instructional purposes last year at a trackday at Cadwell. I have also discussed a similar use for this car with another club member who was bundling an instruction package as part of the deal for the sale of his car.

Trackdays occur all year round (but probably cancelled this week!), are reasonably priced at this time of year, don't need a race licence and they are suitable for instruction. Test days can be more frantic than a race meeting. Donington Park is the only circuit that permits single seaters on trackdays and is probably not operational at the moment as it is being modified for F1.

Do you have a race licence?

Looking forward to meeting you.

Patrick

[andrewcliffe]

Whereas Tristan jumped straight into the Reynard 883 with no previous racing history, and lined up for his first race with his brand first license in the pouring rain at Castle Combe 2007. He's done all right in his year and 3/4 racing career.

Obviously it helps to be mechanically minded and a lot of time has been spent both on the Reynard and the new Dallara dismantling things in order to improve them but also to learn about the car.

[tristancliffe]

Whereas Tristan jumped straight into the Reynard 883 with no previous racing history, and lined up for his first race with his brand first license in the pouring rain at Castle Combe 2007. He's done all right in his year and 3/4 racing career.

Obviously it helps to be mechanically minded and a lot of time has been spent both on the Reynard and the new Dallara dismantling things in order to improve them but also to learn about the car.

I've got a really good run-off grass collection now. Hoping to complete the set this year.

And, I have swappsies too, so if anyone (Jeremy) has some from Mallory I could trade them Snetterton

[broadside]

Rugby! just a scones throw from Dermots legendry 'Midlands Distribution Hub', he'll be polishing something suitable as we speak!

[Trev]

Hi Guys

Firstly thanks for all the responses some very, very helpful information so far. Also thanks Simon for the offer of meeting up and discussing Mono in more detail, I may well take you up on your offer.

A few people are asking about my racing experience level, well its zero. I am currently in the process of applying for my race license which I hope to complete as soon as I can. Then the next step is to look at what kind of racing I'd like to get into. I've looked at things like clio cups etc but really I want to get into single seat racing and it seems that mono offers a very affordable and realitivly simple way in to this kind of racing.

As for running a car I am no grease monkey but if as you say these are fairly easy cars to understand I am sure with a little help I'd be able to find my way around the car. My plan would be to hire a mechanic for perhaps the first 4 meetings (or however many it takes) and for them to talk me through the car, preperation and how the car is put together etc and just get to a level where I know the basics to get me up and running at each event. I have 2 mates that are also willing to come and help me with the car which will also be a bonus too.

I guess it then comes down to the class and car. Now one thing I didn't ask was about the size of the cars. I am a fairly tall chap at 6ft 2" so would I fit into any of the cars or would some be a bit of a squeeze. A couple of people have said have a look through galleries etc and just pick one you like the look of, well if I am going on looks alone I'd love a formula renault. Also I'd like a car that I can grow with as my experience levels expand. So like tristan I'd quite like to jump in the deep end and have a car that I can learn over time.

Trev

[phuston]

Trev,

Many start in single seaters, being more responsive (there is no substitute for lack af weight!)they are the best way to learn technique.

The seat position in the cars is fixed and effectively each driver has a bespoke car. But, pedal positions are adjustable to the point of some cars having two pedal pivot points. Shoulder position and gear lever position must be correct if the car is to be driven effectively. My two seater is driven by all and sundry, which shows how tolerant drivers can be of cars with fixed seats, pedals etc.

Some cars may be built too small for you because their intended market is jockey sized youngsters, others are designed to be accommodating. I would suggest that you need to try a few for size, the easiest way to do this is at a race meeting or a test day. Its what I did when I started and I bought the car that I was most comfortable in, regardless of its other qualities!

A final thought, you need to be able to 'heel and toe' to drive a single seater with a 'crash gearbox'. The technique can be practiced in a manual on the road, if its pedals permit.

Regards,

Patrick

[Dermot Healy]

.......so whatever are you doing heeling & toeing with a dog engagement gearbox?....you'll go quicker & have better control of the car if you just dab the clutch & select the gear you want as quick as you can. All this dancing on the pedals may get you an audition on Strictly Come Dancing but it won't make you go quick. Double declutching makes sense, and is necessary, on 'crash' gearboxes on vehicles with heavy flywheels, unresponsive engines,and widely spaced ratios... but just confuses things on modern single seaters and the slow speed changes that result are what kills dog rings.

Not that i could do any of it properly.....

[Trev]

As for 'heeling & toeing', yes thats no problem for me. However would I be right in thinking that if I went for a formula renault it would have a sequential box and so the clutch would only be used for pulling away. If this is the case then I can just left front brake which will be even easier.